I was told by the CoBoE that many in the congregation were concerned about my answers. He wouldn't elaborate on numbers, status, demographics of those concerned about my answers. I told him that I was really surprised in that I quoted the society's literature on the matter (the unannounced and sudden requirement in cong for Bros to wear a suit behind the lectern) and quoted scripture. Literature stated dress was a personal matter. Anyway, he told me that my answers were diatribe. Told me that if it didn't stop there would need to be a shepherding visit in the context of Galatians 6:1. I told him that I was sorry that many were concerned and that they wouldn't hear me again. They didn't either as that was my last meeting. That was several years ago now. So on this occassion the direct arrogance of the BoE was responsible for a reduction in attendance numbers. I was contacted a year later and a shepherding visit was suggested to me. I quoted Psalm 23:1 and said that in the unlikely event of me needing such I'd contact them and they needn't contact me again. Since then I heard nothing until a week ago - memorial invitation. No congregation letter heading. They're being careful to present a personal invitation, avoiding cong / WT formally - perhaps to avoid falling foul of the GDPR in UK & Europe. I suspect the WT is behind an enhanced effort to bring back individuals who departed the organisation - hence memorial invites this year and not other years. The reduction in numbers nationally may be getting to them.
Nicholaus Kopernicus
JoinedPosts by Nicholaus Kopernicus
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47
What is the most insensitive thing an Overseer or Elder has ever said and done to you?
by RULES & REGULATIONS inwhat is the most insensitive thing an overseer or elder has ever said and done to you?
i have had many insensitive things said to me by some elders, but for some reason one self-righteous elder was always on my case.
he didn't like the fact that i missed meetings, didn't like that i never went out in field service, that i didn't answer at the weekly meetings and he didn't like that i carried my books and magazines in my hands and not a service/book bag.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
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Would You Ever Go Back To The Witnesses??
by minimus inevery once in a while you hear people say they actually “miss” their old witness friends and or family.
some would have even stayed in the organization if they became a bit more liberal and open minded.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
I was approached by two different JWs on two occasions while abroad. Both knew me from my elder days when I gave talks in their congregations. Both invited me to their meetings. I explained to them that I hadn't been to a JW meeting in years and that I can't even open a WT magazine. One responded that it wasn't her place to delve further and went on to explain Jehovah's many blessings on her. The other asked why, and I told him of the situation of x3 elders in Eire who reported child abuse to the police. Consequently, their eminances in the Britain branch assigned a JC and two of the three elders were deleted having been found to not be of sound mind for not having first called tbe branch's legal desk. He was shocked at this disclosure.
I haven't been to a JW meeting for over 4 years now. After 6 months of abscence had lapsed I was called by an elder who wanted to arrange a shepherding call. I thanked him and explained that "Jehovah is my shepherd, I shall lack nothing." Went on to add that should I discern the need for help I might approach them. I have had no further attempted contact. I suspect they know that if they were to force the issue there would be a significant response cost. The GDPR also protects me.
There is nothing that would make me return. Nothing! A significant factor behind my departure was being shunned following my use (on two occasions) of JW literature quotations and bible references during meetings to publicly admonish the local BoE for requiring bros to wear a suit when behind the lectern. When I was subsequently approached by two elders and informed that many were "concerned" about my answers I told them that they (the "many") would not be concerned about my answers ever again. Problem solved! Simple!
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JW trolleys - London
by HB inthought you might like to know that during a visit to london yesterday, the jw's were conspicuous by their complete absence.
admittedly it was a tuesday in february, but myself and my ex jw friend thought we would see at least one or two trolleys in their usual haunts, but nothing.
we checked out the area around westminster station where we have talked to jws before, but there was no sign.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
I too have noticed a paucity of witnesses with their trollies in London. Previously noted them regularly at Oxford Circus, Marble Arch, Egware Road, and Victoria Street. I also noted that they tended to funnel - that is stand at side of trolley with arms extended holding out literature. This means that pedestrians' space on pavements was reduced. I am reasonably sure complaints were made to Westminster City Council and that the municipality's response has meant that the Britain Branch has had to cool down their "Metropolitan Witnessing" as they call it. I'm pleased to note their substantial absence - see them as mere litter!
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Perspective which the GBoJW should implement.
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inon 30th january 2019, the rt hon jeremy hunt mp (foreign & commonwealth office) launched an independent review into the persecution of christians world wide to be chaired by philip mountstephen - bushop of truro.
in his address to the audience, jeremeyhunt stated... .
"... freedom of worship is a fundamental human right... freedom of worship is the invisible line between open societies and closed societies.. where freedom of worship is hampered or prevented, then usually that’s a sign of lots of other things going wrong, and we wanted to make sure that the uk is doing everything to champion the values that we all believe in.".
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
DoC:
The WT tendency to shun, give "the cold shoulder" is deeply engrained. In my last three years attending meetings of JWs, I twice challenged an unannounced decision made by the local BoE which affected Bros having assignments behind the lectern. I cited and quoted WT literature and scripture forcefully. After the 2nd challenge I was approached by the CBoE who engaged in an ad hominem attack and didn't respond to the points I raised. My "friends" stopped talking to me. Despite reaching out to talk to them, they were visibly uncomfortable with my approaches. So I simply stopped attending. Stopped contributing money. Some months later I received a telephone call in the hope of the BoE paying a shepherding visit. I told him that "Jehovah is my Shepherd. I shall lack nothing".
I mention this as empirical evidence of what you say in terms of their shunning practice being intrinsic to their worship. However, their shunning preference(s) and the ease with which they use it is demonstrative of a propensity to scatter rather than gather. Scatttering, is not a feature of Christianity. This, and other nihilistic behaviours are contributing to the shrinkage of the org in the developed world. GOOD!
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Perspective which the GBoJW should implement.
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inon 30th january 2019, the rt hon jeremy hunt mp (foreign & commonwealth office) launched an independent review into the persecution of christians world wide to be chaired by philip mountstephen - bushop of truro.
in his address to the audience, jeremeyhunt stated... .
"... freedom of worship is a fundamental human right... freedom of worship is the invisible line between open societies and closed societies.. where freedom of worship is hampered or prevented, then usually that’s a sign of lots of other things going wrong, and we wanted to make sure that the uk is doing everything to champion the values that we all believe in.".
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
On 30th January 2019, the Rt Hon Jeremy Hunt MP (Foreign & Commonwealth Office) launched an independent review into the persecution of Christians world wide to be chaired by Philip Mountstephen - Bushop of Truro. In his address to the audience, JeremeyHunt stated...
"... freedom of worship is a fundamental human right... freedom of worship is the invisible line between open societies and closed societies.
Where freedom of worship is hampered or prevented, then usually that’s a sign of lots of other things going wrong, and we wanted to make sure that the UK is doing everything to champion the values that we all believe in."
Whilst JWs wear their invisible persecutory victim badge with pride, nevertheless they are perpetrators of heinous acts themselves. You need only disagree with them to fall victim to their coldness. They are a closed society in many respects. Indeed, within their org, lots of other things are going wrong.
I thought even this simple benchmark / paradigm of the FCO shows how wanton the GBoJW is.
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Wimbledon Kingdom Hall
by truthseeker ini just heard that wimbledon kingdom hall is being or about to be sold.
it is 60 years old and worth half a million pounds.. has anyone heard anything more about this?.
truthseeker.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
Oh yes! The KH on Haydon's Rd is the one with the CO flat (previously anyway). The other KH may have been the one in which a tall and concentric Morley was the coordinator. Hitherto the recipient of a lawsuit by a Bro Otto if I recollect properly. I was told that Morley ran the cong like a business - rich in protocol and poor in love. I was also told that 30% or more moved away such was his cold and conceited paradigm. So strange tbat the GB wants JWs to harvest recruits then BoEs like those in Wimbledon just haemorrhage recruits. What a paradox!
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Wimbledon Kingdom Hall
by truthseeker ini just heard that wimbledon kingdom hall is being or about to be sold.
it is 60 years old and worth half a million pounds.. has anyone heard anything more about this?.
truthseeker.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
I have passed this Wimbledon KH several times recently. It's the one with (or did have) a CO flat. It still seems to be in use. No for sale signs on display.
The KH in Kingston on Thames had a for sale sign and it's still for sale to the best of my knowledge. Looked a real eye sore a couple of months ago when I last checked.
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Lesson in tolerance and inclusion for GBoJW
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inon board his trip home from eire - the pope gave a 45 min on board press conference (26 aug 2018)..... "... the pope also highlighted the need for parents of gay children to have a dialogue with their offspring and not condemn them.
'your question is clear: what would i say to a father who sees that his son or daughter has that tendency?
i would say first to pray, don’t condemn, dialogue, understand, make space for them.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
On board his trip home from Eire - the Pope gave a 45 min on board press conference (26 Aug 2018)....
"... The Pope also highlighted the need for parents of gay children to have a dialogue with their offspring and not condemn them.
'Your question is clear: what would I say to a father who sees that his son or daughter has that tendency? I would say first to pray, don’t condemn, dialogue, understand, make space for them. Let them express themselves,' he said.
'.... Another thing is when it shows itself after 20 years of age or so. But I’ll never say that silence is a remedy. To ignore a son or daughter with homosexual tendencies is a lack of paternity and maternity. You are my son or daughter, as you are, I’m your father, mother, let’s talk…don’t throw them out of the family.'"
His humanity, versatility, understanding, and spirituality comes across. He is the beneficiary of higher education!
The GBoJW have a lot to learn from him. However, learning anything by the GBoJW is difficult to put it mildly!
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The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses wear Coloured Spectacles.
by Nicholaus Kopernicus ini have been reading a text called: “determined to believe” – by prof john c. lennox.
he discusses theological determinism.
it is a rather interesting text.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
I have been reading a text called: “Determined to Believe” – by Prof John C. Lennox. He discusses theological determinism. It is a rather interesting text. Much deeper and more stimulating than anything published by the WTBTS publishing house. Prof Lennox does not consider nor mention Jehovah’s Witnesses but some of his observations can be directly related to their organisation which the governing body vaunts so readily. On page 82, he makes the following observation…
“… theological systems or paradigms can sometimes become so powerful that they end up defining what Scripture is or is not allowed to mean, so that ‘taking Scripture seriously’ means accepting a particular theological system and fitting all Scripture into it. It is therefore wise to recall that, just as science did not create the universe, systematic theology did not produce the Bible. Our ‘isms’ with their systems and paradigms are not infallible. Furthermore, although systems of theology can be of great help, the Bible itself was not in the main written in systematised form. So, just as we must be prepared to allow the universe to correct our scientific paradigms, we must also allow Scripture to control our theological systems. …We must, therefore, be prepared to ask ourselves: do I read the text in this way because of what it says, or because of the colour of the spectacles (the nature of the paradigm) through which I am looking at it?”
“Determined to Believe” – by Prof John C. Lennox
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society aka The Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, aka The International Bible Students Association is a good example of an institution which has adopted a system / paradigm which determines what Scripture is or is not allowed to mean. The trouble is that the JW institution has a copious sprinkling of authors who aren’t terribly good at their job – I mean the governing body of JWs (GBoJW) and their helpers in the writing and teaching committees. An example is their trying to find Scriptural support for their doctrine that Jehovah has always, and indeed presently, works through an earthly organisation headed by a governing body. They claim that the God approved organisation is the one established by Jehovah’s Witnesses. They cite the Apostle Paul’s approach to the congregation in Jerusalem in the first century (circumcision dispute) as evidence of their assertion of an organisation (1st century governing body) being used. This in itself is quite a fallacious assertion and devoid of any evidence for the Bible doesn’t mention an organisation or a governing body . It was those individuals in Jerusalem (which the modern day GBoJW claim to be the governing body of the 1st century organisation) which insisted that individuals had to be circumcised. It was they who were corrected by the Apostle Paul who cited the authority of Scripture.
However, the GBoJW today ignore Scripture which directly impacts upon the assertion of God using an organisation. Such scriptures include….
Heb 1:1,2 – “God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things”.
This scripture doesn’t sound like God has or is working through an organisation. Rather, it paints a picture of God working through chosen individuals (prophets). The last such chosen individual was his Son Jesus. The Scripture states that he was appointed heir not of a few things, or some things, of many things, but rather, “of all things”. Thus, there is no scope for a sharing of authority or influence with an entity such as the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Similarly, another scripture which rules out the possibility of the position of the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and it’s “organisation” being founded in Scripture is Matt 28:18 which states… “ Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: ‘All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.’ ” Again, notice that the statement is unequivocal. It leaves no space for the paradigm of the GBoJWs assertion of their being a chosen organisation which God is working through. Their assertion has to be erroneous as - not some authority, not much authority, but “all authority” has been vested in Jesus. That they abrogate Jesus’ authority de facto and annexe such for themselves is to infer that Jesus was somehow mistaken and that they know better! Jesus is not alone in being marginalised however in that the GBoJW seek to keep the authority and influence of the “superior authorities” at bay. Indeed, they are spending large sums of money in legal / court fees to that end when it comes to child abuse victims seeking redress.
One more example of the GBoJW wearing “coloured spectacles” is as follows….
You will note that in recent times, JWs behind the lectern are almost exclusively attired in a two or three piece suit. Gone are the days when one might be accepted behind the lectern wearing a dark blazer and grey trousers, even though this is still seen as sartorial. Nope – it must be a suit. Yet when it comes to what Scripture says about attire, one of the few references is at 1 Tim 2:9 wherein it is said…. “Likewise I desire the women to adorn themselves in well-arranged dress…” In the Awake of Aug 8th 1998 entitled – “The Bible’s Viewpoint Your Dress and Grooming – Does It Matter to God?” the following points are detailed…
“… the truths taught by Jesus were intended to liberate people from the oppressive burdens created tradition and false teachings. They were designed to refresh those ‘toiling and loaded down’. Neither Jesus nor his Father, Jehovah God, has any desire to control people’s lives to the extent that individuals can no longer take initiative and exercise their own reasoning on personal matters…. Within the Christian arrangement, dress and grooming are basically a matter of personal taste.”
What a nice balanced statement. What good example of deferring to scripture. Yet today, 20 years later, you must wear a suit behind the lectern. The trouser leg mustn’t be tight fitting (tight pants in the USA). So the advice and counsel from that Awake in 1998 and based on the Bible is now discarded in favour of the preferences of a highly directive elite in the suburbs of New York. What is also remarkable is that this requirement is being implemented universally and without dissent on the part of JW BoE all over.
Well, in the past I wrote on this blog site why I could never again be an elder in the JW organisation. (https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6049665497694208/one-reason-why-could-never-again-elder) Now however, I cannot even be an ordinary Jehovah’s Witness. I can’t bear it. Indeed that they refer to themselves still as Jehovah’s Witnesses is gross as they follow the teachings and edicts of the GBoJW. Any deference to scriptural authority is contingent upon what the GBoJW says on a given matter or scripture. I was approached by an elder in my congregation by telephone to arrange for me to benefit from a shepherding call. I thanked him for his interest but explained that “Jehovah is my Shepherd, I shall lack nothing” (Ps 23:1 NWT). He then suggested we meet for a coffee and I thanked him again and that I would be pleased to contact him when I feel like a coffee. Haven’t heard from the BoE since. I rather think they know that they’d do well to leave me alone rather than arouse my ire!
So to conclude, I’m not at all keen on the “the colour of the spectacles” which the GBoJW are wearing to understand scripture. They show no evidence of adjusting their paradigm to Scripture. If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you should be greatly troubled at the increasing and pervasive hegemony of the GBoJW over the congregations. Their self-promotion is surely an evidence of them thinking more of themselves than it is necessary to think. If you were to be accused of being a follower of man rather than a follower of Christ, how would you give a rebuttal when most JWs are so deferential and obsequious regarding the GBoJW? How would you defend yourself against the accusation of creature worship?
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The WT and child safeguarding chasm
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inthe following are some notes from my recent level iii child safeguarding training.
i have tabulated the notes and then expressed my thoughts about the training and the paradigm of the wtbts / christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses...... .
course notes....... steps to take when one learns of / receives a complaint of child abuse.. uk level iii child safeguarding training (excerpt).. .
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
Diogenesister: please post on exjwreddit as you suggest. Tnx - NK.